How do you see the role of women in today's economic/financial world?

Women obviously play a very important role in the economy. My specific comments will be focused on the financial industry, since this is where I have spent all of my career. According to a recent Gallup poll regarding the financial services sector, 60 percent of the workers are women, but as you move up the corporate hierarchy of these firms, only 19 percent make it in senior leadership roles, 14 percent have a seat on the board, and only 2 percent are CEOs. Although we have a lot of Woman Power in the industry, they are not high enough in these organizations to bring about needed change. We still have a lot of work to do in this sector.

Do you think women managers bring any particular advantages to the company? If so, what?

Our Pershing organization recently launched a White Paper on the different characteristics of male vs. female managers. Although one should not generalize, male management characteristics tend to be more top down, authoritarian, commanding, and controlling while women focus more on building a collaborative environment, emphasizing team work, and building a consensus, so that their teams will own the decision and its outcome. Having this male/female diversity in management gives you a 360-degree view of your options and should allow you to make better decisions.

What are the major obstacles that prevent women from attaining key decision-making posts?

During my 37 years in the industry, there has been an evolution in women's roles. I actually don't believe there are as many barriers as people write about. Develop the right foundation early in your career. As an example, it is important to have experience in how to manage a budget, run a sales team, and learn management techniques so that you will be equipped to run a business. Running a business is an important stepping stone for an Executive Management position down the road. Women more often gravitate towards support/staff functions, and no matter how senior they are this rarely leads to the C-Suite.

Network better, but on your own terms. If you want to leave “on time” to care for your family, then think about alternative activities, like lunches, that can reap the same benefits. It is all about getting to know the influencers in your company/industry and creating the exposure with management, so that you will be considered for the next job.

In summary, it is learning financial/quantitative skills early in your career and having exposure so that you can showcase these skills.

What advice/support can we give to women to overcome these obstacles?

First, it is awareness raising—realizing that there are obstacles that you need to overcome or, more importantly, skills you need to develop. It is not “complaining why you didn't get that promotion,” but understanding what qualifications you need to be considered and advertising that you have them.

What we did in WIN to assist the development of these skills is launch a financial acumen training program through a series of webcasts taught by executives in the firm. Once completed, this gave the participants a comfort level of the subject matter; and therefore, we used training to overcome the obstacle.

The other area of development—networking and exposure—this is one of the tremendous advantages of WIN, which allows you to network on multiple levels and “practice being a leader” at the WIN committee level. Because senior men are part of our events and activities, it provides a unique exposure opportunity.

Within the WIN network, do you run a mentoring program?

The WIN organization is a little more than 10 years old. Mentoring was the first program we created. In the United States, it was all women; in Europe it included men mentors. I was based in London at the inception of the program and started WIN EMEA, where we included men early on in an advisory capacity. The reason for taking this approach was due to guidance I received from other firms who had established Women's ERG's curve. We were advised to be inclusive or fail in Europe. This was a critical decision point, because in most cases men ran our biggest businesses in Europe, and by including them in the process we had their support to give our WIN women exposure they could not get in their day job. Executive men observing WIN members lead from all levels gave them recognition and exposure, so that they were better considered for the next promotion or assignment.

So at the very beginning, what was the purpose of the mentoring?

From the European context, we identified what women lacked in the workplace was exposure with NYC Executive Management, who made most career advancement decisions in those days. Many of our European women were in support infrastructure jobs and had the responsibility, but not the title that their position warranted. Some might call this a glass ceiling, but actually it was worse. They were in the job, just not recognized. This would ultimately lead to the “Leaking Pipeline” where women frustrated with the lack of advancement would leave. We used the mentoring program to help these women develop presentation and negotiation skills and to showcase them with executive management when they traveled from NYC.

Today we are very conscious of the “Frozen Middle”—women who can't move past the middle-management level after child-bearing years. They believe that they fall off the radar of top talent once they take their leave of absence. We are working on a support program to remedy this.

Anything you want to add?

Yes, you mentioned sponsoring vs. mentoring. We have a developed a robust mentoring program, but we are still working on our sponsoring program. The sponsor takes a risk on the sponsee, which is quite different from a mentoring relationship, which is one of guidance. Connecting these pairs (sponsor vs. sponsee) properly is critical for the success of the program. This is what we are working on now.

Tell me a little about your career to date

After graduating from college with a BA in chemistry and economics, I thought I wanted to pursue a career in law, so I worked for about two years as a legal assistant, first at a large law firm, and then at a hedge fund in New York City. Then I went to law school, and after graduation, came to BNY Mellon about three years ago to join what we now call the OTC Derivatives Regulatory Reform Team. My role on the team is a perfect opportunity to combine my legal training with support for an important investment services business.

During this past year, I moved into my first position as a manager, and now I'm heading a newly created team. It's been a very challenging and rapidly evolving role, and I'm absolutely enjoying it.

Do you think there are any obstacles to women achieving posts of responsibility?

While growing up and attending school, I never felt that being a woman would stand in the way of achieving whatever I wanted to accomplish. Fortunately for me as a person, that thought never entered my mind.

That said, as my career has progressed, I've started to see the challenges of balancing work and life, fighting stereotypes, and changing longstanding cultural norms that are biased against women. I've become more aware of the importance of timing as a career factor. When women are in their late twenties and early thirties, the time in their lives when women are supposed to be developing their careers, they're also dealing with the societal pressure and desire to find a partner and start a family. The issues are real and, for me, might become personal as starting a family is something I don't want to compromise. In the next three, five, or ten years, I might be in a position where it would make sense to take a detour or make a lateral move to work on an aspect of my life other than my professional career.

Reverse mentoring: Why did you apply?

The easiest place to start is explaining why I didn't apply for my company's conventional mentoring program. I already had traditional mentoring relationships with my managers—I've been lucky enough to learn from and train under the company veterans, and this natural mentorship has been both effective and critical in my early career.

Our Reverse Mentoring Program gave me the opportunity to have an entirely different mentoring experience. I was invited to participate in our company's pilot program, and got paired with my mentee, Jeff, an executive who's distinguished himself as one of our resident continuous process improvement experts. Having a mentoring relationship with someone who's a member of the company's Operating Committee was one of those opportunities you just can't turn down. I'm glad I didn't. Thanks to the care with which the program's been designed and administered, it's provided a venue where I'm welcomed—even encouraged—to share observations and expectations from my vantage point.

What do you hope to gain from the Reverse Mentoring Program?

In my meetings with my mentee, we talk about my perspective as a millennial—what issues junior team members are facing, and what motivates and interests us. We talk about how management decisions are being perceived; cultural differences between senior management and junior employees; day-to-day issues I face at work, and how I approach them. Sharing my take on company decisions serves as a springboard for conversations about the company's bigger strategic initiatives and projects. Through open dialogue, I can offer my feedback and my perspective.

I'm relatively new to the industry, and I'm a working manager, so my focus tends to be up close and here and now. I'll take a deep dive into a particular issue at work, and Jeff will share with me a more strategic perspective on initiatives underway to address similar issues, and he'll ask for my opinion. Learning how to apply that kind of perspective—seeing things through a wide angle, wealth-of-know-how lens—that's what I seek from this program.

Did you have any preparation before you began the mentoring relationship?

The mentors met as a group beforehand to prepare for our first meeting with our mentees. One piece of advice was especially helpful: whether you're talking to a colleague, or your staff, your manager, or a client, you first have to establish a rapport based on confidence and trust. That was a helpful reminder that a mentoring relationship can't be forced: it has to be developed.

How did that first meeting with your mentee go?

My mentee was very open, much more approachable than I had imagined. He set the tone by letting me know that I was in charge of the conversation. He was all ears, eager to hear what I had to say, what ideas I had, and what I thought he could do to help effect change when change was appropriate. I really appreciated that.

What aspect of this reverse mentoring will have the most impact on your professional career?

I have an appreciation for the years of experience our senior management has invested in getting to where they are in their careers. They worked hard, and they've done something right. Just getting a glimpse of their path has been instructional and valuable. Every time I speak to my mentee, I feel reinvigorated, and have a sense that I can have an impact, no matter how small. Exposure to my mentee's level of management, leadership, and decision making has been invaluable. Plus, by interacting and engaging with someone at that level, I hope to gain a new level of composure and maturity that will help me grow professionally.

What advice would you give to a woman who is trying to get to a more senior level?

First and foremost, know what you are capable of. Work really hard to become that go-to person, a subject matter expert. And don't be afraid to use your emotional intelligence and empathy that we have as women. Whenever I'm presenting an idea or making a decision, I always try to apply this combination—going with confidence, talking about what I believe in, sharing what I know.

Of course, women cannot overcome these challenges alone. So if you can, find a workplace, a group, a team, or a manager that is supportive. Change comes from efforts at every level, and I see many companies, like mine, making an effort to create more opportunities for women. Finally, be more confident. We have to know our work and know our worth, not apologize for being there. With that, we can achieve more.

Can you tell me briefly about your business career?

I started in management consulting, but I had an opportunity to move into an internal consulting group at a money center bank. I ended up having many different roles, from securities operations to creating a precious metals depository to starting an electronics stock exchange. Immediately following 9/11, I was actively involved in the recovery of the bank and then contributing to the creation of public policy with the Federal Reserve.

So a lot of different roles—some by luck, some with a lot of careful thought of what would give me a broader set of experiences.

Do you feel there are any obstacles to women achieving key posts of responsibility within financial companies?

At BNY Mellon we do some fantastic work to promote careers for women, but if you look at the actual headcount, and the senior management, the gender split is not as rounded as even the bank would like. I don't think there are specific obstacles, but I think that there may be unconscious bias. At BNY Mellon, I don't see us differentiating between men, women, or minorities—I think we are very performance based. It's all about can you deliver and execute against your task?

We have become more focused on defining goals and your ability to achieve your goals. So from that perspective, there are no obstacles. There may be unconscious biases—implications to a woman's career if she chooses to go on maternity leave or have a different job because she's going to spend more time raising children. But I think those are challenges that society faces, and I think generally we're willing not to slow down a woman's career based on those things.

Tell me a little about mentoring at BNY Mellon, and particularly about the Reverse Mentoring Program and its goals

The Reverse Mentoring Program is a way for more seasoned individuals to get to think about work and opportunities to make BNY Mellon, which is a traditional company, more appealing for the millennials. I see it as twofold: 1) it's an opportunity for me to understand what Yoon and her colleagues view as important at a traditional company versus an entrepreneurial startup: what types of things they are looking for and what challenges they are experiencing. And 2) it's about my learning what the challenges are, where I can help my mentor and apply that knowledge to other millennials and developing the talent in the company.

The Reverse Mentoring Program is an opportunity to grow our high-end millennial talent. We were selective in choosing the individuals for the program, and I think it's very successful.

In terms of the institution, what will happen post Reverse Mentoring Program?

I suggested bringing a round table together to discuss lessons learned and opportunities going forward in the middle of the first year. And we're doing that.

What I use the information for is in thinking about how to recruit and how to run the job-rotation schemes in the operations area of the bank. With my colleagues, we manage an operation of about 18,000 people, and this is an excellent way to attract and maintain the best talent. So I think about my conversations with my mentor and her peers in terms of the strategies that we could take to address our talent goals.

What advice would you give to a woman employee seeking promotion to a key post of responsibility?

Good question. I'd start the conversation with trying to understand what the person wants to do with the next wave—or the next two waves—of her career. Do you want to do something creative? Do you want to be managing large organizations? Are you fascinated by organizational design and the management of organizations? Do you want to be an individual contributor? Do you want to drive strategies for a company, or do you want to be in the weeds and operate a company? Those are discussions I'd have with anybody whether they're early in their career or farther along.

Then based on that, I would explore opportunities with them that might either help them gain experience or set them up to be recognized in that space. When you're early in your career, you may not have a clue. So gaining experience in the operations can pay off later.

So it's about trying to get an understanding of what their interests are, and then trying to identify opportunities that give you the chance to expand on your specific interests.

Anything else you want to say to women seeking advancement?

When I started my career I was focused on setting goals and achieving them. I started at a junior level and paid my dues. Recently I met four highly successful women that each took their job opportunities and pursued them. One is a CEO of a PR firm, another is a recognized national news reporter, the other is a movie producer, and the other is a CEO of her fourth technology start-up. They're all very personable, knowledgeable, and don't see any barriers. They seem to just go for it. They're smart, they are aggressive yet they don't come across as aggressive, and they pursued a track and performed really well and kept getting recognized for newer and newer opportunities. I see this as a similar quality whether you're a man or a woman: you have to have a can-do attitude and the confidence to just go for it.