How long have you worked in France?

After three years as an associate at Slaughter and May, a London-based UK law firm, I joined the Paris branch in 1999 and stayed for six years. Then, in 2005, I joined BNP Paribas as a lawyer in the team responsible for international financing of energy and raw materials and project financing. In 2009, I was appointed as deputy director of the team, and in 2013 I was appointed director. In the meantime, the team had expanded into aircraft and ship financing, and had grown from 7 to 16 lawyers.

Before joining the WLI (Women's Leadership Initiative) program, had you previously been mentored?

Not formally, no. In the law firm, you usually work for a few associates, and mentoring can take place in an informal way. When I learnt that I'd been chosen to take part in the WLI pilot, I was delighted. I hoped that the program would help me to understand the group better. When I started at BNP Paribas, I spent a lot of time working on files, and I got to know only my in-house clients. However, BNP Paribas is a major group, and although I knew a lot of people, my network was limited to the activity in which I worked. I knew that I had to extend the network in order to understand how the group worked.

How was the program for you?

I was in a group of four women mentored by two directors: François Freyeisen and a man in charge of capital markets. It was an excellent combination. To share the mentoring experience with three other women was very interesting since we were able to share our worries and experiences. Our discussions were good for both the mentors and the mentees. Indeed, by the time we got to the end of the mentoring program, we realized that our mentors often encountered the same problems as us. At the beginning, everyone spent an entire day together, then, over the nine months of the program, we had three online meetings during which we discussed different subjects. Our mentors also arranged meetings for us with senior women executives within BNP Paribas, and we were encouraged to attend their steering committees. Thanks to WLI, my understanding of the group, outside of the CIB, has grown substantially. The program ended with another full day with all the participants. As our group found the experience a little too short, we decided to continue our discussions over lunch meetings.

What did you think at the end of the program?

There's a difference in the proportion of women in the various divisions and the proportion in positions of responsibility. This program is one of the bank's ways of changing the situation. The mentoring program benefited me in several ways: it made me aware of the career opportunities for women aiming to hold positions of responsibility—mentoring demonstrated that women can legitimately expect to have careers that lead to positions of responsibility, and that the bank's future is also the future of its women. In addition, mentoring enabled me to have a more transversal view of the various career paths, and it gave me a network, which I can go to when I want a different view of my own career path—not to mention the network of other mentees and my mentors. Mentoring made me look at my career in a different way. The steering committees of tomorrow will reflect the balance of men and women that currently exists in the teams of today. The WLI program is aimed at preparing the group for these changes by creating a meeting place for directors and women who have the ambition to construct a professional career.

In 2012, CIB launched a pilot mentoring program. Why did you take part?

I've worked at BNP Paribas since 1979. Until the beginning of the 1990s, I was a banker, then management controller. After that, I worked in the markets in Paris, London, and Tokyo, before coming back to Paris in 2010 to take up my current post. When I heard about the WLI program, I said yes immediately. Over a period of several months, I mentored four women whom I already knew professionally, and I was therefore very interested in getting to know them personally. A few months before the start of the program, I had organized an informal mentoring between a young woman from Brussels and a female colleague from Paris who had a brilliant career within the bank. Personally, I've never had an official mentor, but throughout my career, I've benefited from informal mentoring by people I've respected and with whom I've stayed in touch ever since—even after their departure or retirement from the bank. Mentoring is a question of affinity.

Did you prepare for this role before starting out?

We attended a workshop for mentors where one of us explained what was expected. We were given a sort of route map. The French mentees seemed a bit surprised by the program, perhaps for cultural reasons. They wondered why they needed support. Perhaps it was a question of pride or skepticism, as they wanted to believe that a person, man or woman, should be rewarded on merit. There was certainly this sort of tendency in my group, where two of the mentees were a bit wary of the approach. They saw it as a sort of condescension, afraid they'd be seen as lagging behind, as if they were recipients of charity or that they deserved pity. However, this had no impact at all on the mentoring relationship!

How did the mentoring go?

My group consisted of an Irish woman based in Ireland, a French woman whose origin was Cambodian, a Belgian-Canadian living in France, and an English woman who had lived in France for some time, Tabitha Coombe. There were three ways we could work together: meetings and individual lunches to get to know each other better; three sessions with all the groups—at the beginning, halfway through and at the end; and online meetings with experts. One day an American woman talked about how to succeed in a man's world, giving advice about how to dress and hairstyles, which led to enormous hilarity among the French! There we had another cultural difference! In the mentoring context, I invited my mentees to attend, individually, an executive committee meeting to see how it worked. They discovered the type of topics that were discussed, participated in discussions, and, more specifically, learnt how, when we don't agree, to compromise and reach a workable consensus.

Let's speak about Tabitha Coombe…

Tabitha wanted to understand the internal politics of the bank. She's a remarkable lawyer who has had her head in files for a long time, reading contracts, recommending solutions. This type of work is very technical. She was already deputy director of her team and was wondering how she, as a specialist, could move on in the organization, and how to combine that with management.

The more political aspects of how the bank worked interested her. Like the other three women in my group, she wanted to know how to use her skills to progress and find a way through a path that seemed full of traps. As I was also a specialist, I was able to talk to Tabitha about my experience and explain to her how to alternate between operational posts and specialist posts, or to move geographically. The interest is to vary the posts, and not to remain in one post forever. It's also important to cultivate a multicultural view. Since the end of the program, with no cause-and-effect relationship, Tabitha has been promoted and now has full responsibility for her team!

What has this experience brought you?

As a man, and moreover as a French man, I was a little skeptical about the program, thinking that I'd look like the kind of man who lectures weak women, some of whom were actually more qualified than me! It was a mistake. I got to know them personally, and even though the program is over, I always get their news, and we have lunch together every six months or so. My four mentees have all received promotions or progressed in their careers! I don't pretend to think it's anything to do with the mentoring program, but I'd say it's just a happy coincidence!

You joined BNP Paribas in 1993. What has your career path been like?

I have been working as a CIB Coverage Banker for six years (three years in Paris, three years in Madrid-Spain). After that, back in France, I joined the newly created “Group Risk Management” where I acted as a delegation holder with a Senior Credit Officer role, in charge of Structured Finance (Media & Telecom Finance, LBO, Project Finance, Corporate Acquisition Finance). I then joined Fixed Income as Head of Counterparty Risk, covering all counterparty risk issues globally, both at Corporates and at Financial Institutions. Following these very exciting six years at Global Markets, I joined Transaction Banking two years ago. Each time I changed positions it has been a huge challenge, with high technical and networking barriers. Difficult challenges are a real fuel for me.

You were chosen to take part in the WLI mentoring pilot. How was it for you?

My mentor, Constance Chalchat, immediately invested time and commitment to make me understand that more progress, more visibility was achievable and that I had to increase self-confidence. She invited me to attend the GECD (Global Equities and Commodity Derivatives) EXCO (Executive Committee) in order to make me understand that EXCO membership is not “out of reach.”

This investment of her time gave me a lot of pleasure. We also stayed in touch by telephone. Throughout the program, and even today, she works hard to make herself available.

Has the mentoring had a good influence on your career?

My career development isn't directly linked to the mentoring but is more a result of years of work. It's not because I've got a mentor that I get a promotion! But I learned something that is essential for career progression: how to market yourself internally—as a leader, for example, or whatever it is you want to be noticed for. As in all companies, though BNP Paribas is especially big, there's a tendency to spend your days in the little teams, and it can be quite difficult for people to move out of these comfort zones. This is where Constance's mentoring has been fantastic. She talked to me about certain people who I had to meet, people who worked in departments quite far removed from mine. This link with Constance opened doors and enabled me to meet a wider group of people. She played the role of intermediary to begin with to ensure I was in touch with such-and-such a person, then I took over.

I can never thank her enough for insisting on self-confidence and the importance of self promotion: thanks to her input, I joined an EXCO when I last changed positions two years ago. It has become a reality!

To sum up, can we say that if mentoring creates some opportunities, it can also offer you something precious?

Indeed, yes. The increased self-confidence, and the mentoring, have turned me into a more committed employee of BNP Paribas, one who buys into the bank's success.

What could women do to be better represented in the senior ranks of the hierarchy?

The banking sector is especially dominated by men; few women are in positions of responsibility. It's interesting to see how such women are viewed and how they find their balance. When you want to be respected, you can't appear too aggressive; otherwise, you're not well regarded. I always ask women in powerful positions how they managed to break through the barriers. My younger colleagues, whom I try to mentor in an informal way, ask me the same questions. Sometimes, I tell myself that women have to work a lot harder than men in order to be respected. Statistics show that men apply for positions even if they don't feel ready, whereas women reflect and defer what they want, arguing that they'll be ready for this promotion next year. But for me, a woman must raise her hand and go for it. I tell my current deputy, who is a young woman: if you don't ask, you don't get. When my female colleagues hesitate to take responsibility, I tell them that it shows a lack of self-confidence:

I am fortunate to have four sons at home, so I won't have to teach them how to promote their female specificity!! I will rather let them know that the world has changed and that they will have to compete against women at par with men, in their professional lives.

Interview with Constance Chalchat (Mentor)

Constance is in charge of People Development, marketing, public relations, and innovation in the Global Equities and Commodity Derivatives department of BNP Paribas CIB.

What is your main motivation at work?

Effectiveness. And to do that, we have to move the boundaries! I have always been driven by that. And so, after finishing my commercial school, I went to the United States because I wanted to see the country and learn other methods than those I'd been taught at school: I worked in strategic marketing at Danone in New York for three months.

On my return to Europe, as I wanted to get to know a more innovative area, I joined Nike, always in strategic marketing, and stayed there for three years. I then went to a consultancy company for three years followed by a year in the Internet bubble. I then searched for a place to apply my skills in strategy and marketing—somewhere where everything needed doing. In my view, that was in insurance and finance. Chance played a hand in things, and I was headhunted by BNP Paribas. I joined the markets division in 2001 in order to develop a marketing plan for derivatives on shares; then my responsibilities changed as things developed. Among other things, I took over public relations, then events management, created client services, applied lean management to the front office, and dealt with the problem of costs, of innovation. I'm currently in charge of seven or eight areas and am on the executive committee of our subsidiary. Wherever we can add value, that's what I'm interested in!

Why did you agree to take part in the WLI mentoring program?

During my career, I've been lucky enough to have bosses who trusted me. For example, my current boss listens to me and gives me advice, but we still have differences of opinion. It seems difficult to me to have one's own boss as a mentor. Moreover, too few women hold positions of responsibility in the bank, but as one of them, I would have liked to benefit from advice and the experience of a woman some years ago. It's why I want to support young women and help them to progress along the right path. When I was asked to become a mentor for WLI, I didn't hesitate for a second. As I'd co-written the book Mission Possible—The Women's Way to help women progress in the company, the Human Resource Department naturally turned to me. For me, diversity is very important, since it concerns women, multiculturalism, and the rights of parents.

You mentored a group of four young women working in a division connected to yours. How was that?

My group consisted of a French woman, an English, an Australian, and an American. At the same time, I was also mentoring a young French woman in my own activity, under a connected mentoring program. I saw each of them monthly, at least for half an hour, usually three-quarters of an hour, but the first meeting lasted 60 minutes. In the beginning, I listened to them to see how I could help. And if I had an interesting experience to share with them, I did so. For example, I told them about the time when a very senior executive in my group met each member of the executive committee, but I was the last person he had to see, and he only had five minutes left because all my colleagues—men, by the way—had eaten up his time. I was a little fed up of this, so I took the allotted half an hour and told him that I was counting on him to give me as much time as my colleagues. I offered to arrange meetings for my mentees with people from other business areas for them to gain visibility. For Marguerite, my French mentee, I got her to participate in one of my division executive committee meetings. One of the topics addressed was quite close to Marguerite's area of responsibility, and she stepped up and gave all executive committee members really interesting insights and pieces of advice. She got everyone very interested and gained significant visibility through this participation. With my American mentee, I spoke to her about events that I had organized in Paris to promote women. In launching something similar in New York, my American mentee really gained visibility at very senior levels.

Would you like to continue mentoring?

Even though the WLI pilot is finished, I continue to follow and meet up with my mentees. I'd be happy to continue with other people, and I'm happy to be a role model for certain women. But I'd like to give priority to male mentors because they need to understand the problems faced by women if they are to bring about changes. I'm the only woman on the executive committee, and I spoke about the program with my colleagues. Mentoring has to be win-win. Women have a lot of psychological blocks that stop them getting on. In my opinion, if a man tells them it's all in their heads, it will have more impact than if it were me telling them. Women need to hear it from a man, and that opens men's eyes as well! What counts is the added value, not the time spent in the office! This female block is interesting…mentoring seems to me to be important therefore, but the real subject is the structure: women have to decide to listen to themselves and to make their own way through their careers by bringing added value and by increasing their own value. This means a huge psychological step. A mentor cannot bring all of that—but it is a very useful tool, though it's not the only one.